What To Do About New Orleans
I took this shot in downtown New Orleans two years ago.The bill to resurrect New Orleans is now estimated at $200 billion. Best guesses are that it will take between 5 and 15 years to regain any sort of normalcy in the area.
There are about 484,000 people who live(d) there, or 1.3 million people if you include the greater New Orleans territory. Some quick math tells us this:
If $200 billion were distributed to all New Orleans residents, that’s $413,000 per person. For a family of six on welfare, that’s $2.4 million. If we include the greater New Orleans area, it’s $154,000 per person and $923,000 for a family of six.
And all this assumes the bill stays at $200 billion. Many think the real number will be well north of this. $300 billion or more.
I’m not saying government payouts like this are a better way to help remedy the situation in New Orleans, but it sure makes you wonder if this town, so prone to very frequent disasters like this should be the subject of reinvestment and rebuilding. I’ve been to New Orleans, and I love it, but what I love about it is its old-country feel, its historical character, and its rich culture. Considering that tourism is really the only industry in New Orleans (besides freight), will the rebuilt New Orleans be a place anyone will even want to go? Maybe, maybe not. You can’t tear down old Spanish architecture and replace it with old Spanish architecture. It also remains to be seen if all of the displaced people who made the city was it is will ever be able to come back under anything close to normal conditions. It is also debatable exactly how much of the popular French Quarter is actually damaged. Some say not really at all.
Anyway, I have no answers. And I guess my main question is, what exactly are we trying to save with our $200 billion? If it’s the people, there are probably better ways. If it’s an important port town, there are probably other safer alternatives nearby. And if it’s the culture, that’s a big gamble that it will ever be back. There does exist a price-tag which makes resurrecting New Orleans not worth it… I just don’t think anyone knows what that threshold is. And then there’s the inverse argument that billions of dollars of government spending equals billions of dollars of new jobs… a much better use of cash than a failed war.
So what’s the best way out of this situation? Your opinions please…
Note: Collin Yeadon, a reader of this site, has helped design the web presence of an organization called Katrina’s Angels which provides shelter and jobs for the hurricane’s victims. If you’re inclined to help, it’s worth a visit.
I think the big issue now is the fact that there was so much pressure put on the government with the whole Katrina thing that if the bill was any lower again people would be pointing fingers. Not to step on toes, but I agree with you on it. It is a historical city, and like some in the past, they become lost. The “real” New Orleans I think left with Katrina. If we rebuild it, it will not have the same character. It is like an item in our life we do not want to part with, but rather continue fixing it. It just will not have the same value to it.
I think that’s a very clear-minded perspective of things. I mean, if you’re home is taken from you, your first reaction would probably be ‘take it back and rebuild. But in the case you have presented, it seems reasonable to consider if it is even worth it.
I never thought about the rebuilding as you mention…it’s true you can’t replace the old architecture, and the thought of a Disney-style Celebration-type town is just to unthinkable.
I don’t know if you saw Charlie Rose interview jazz trumpeter Wynton Marsalis this week, but he (being a child of New Orleans) had some things to say about the government response, among other topics.
I have an essay on my site with quotes from the interview at http://www.paulviapiano.com/blog/archives/wynton_marsalis_the_city_of_new_orleans.html if you’re interested.
Sorry about that…the URL is:
Wynton Marsalis & The City of New Orleans
The case for the relocation (analyzing the posibility) is made here by judge Posner:
http://www.becker-posner-blog.com/archives/2005/09/katrina_cost-be.html
My rejection of his suggestions is here:
http://gabriel.mihalache.name/bop/archives/2005/09/11/00.30.38/
I’d rather support the natural market mechanism and reduce governmental intervention (including payoffs) to the minimum. Let people express their utility and preference in their actions… it’s as simple as that.
My gut tells me that the new New Orleans will be a much smaller place. Since the city will be uninhabitable for a very long time, most of the displaced are going to need to get jobs and create lives for themselves outside of the area. How many of them will move back is very uncertain.
I can imagine the higher-ground areas restored, and lower-ground areas converted to natural parks and wetlands. A positive but unlikely thing that could be done would be to dismantle some of the levees and allow natural Mississippi River flooding to begin depositing silt and replenishing natural wetlands to the south. Hundreds of miles of pipelines which were built to be underground are now exposed to seawater, as Louisiana has been losing almost a football field of land an water.
Reversing that trend will create a stronger buffer zone against hurricanes, protect pipelines and wetlands, and probably aid in the recovery of the fishing industry.
I agree on many points there.
Re-building New Orleans is much like re-building the Twin Towers. No matter how much money, effort or sweat and tears you throw at it, it’ll (they’ll) never be the same.
In twenty years time, if left to fade back into the natural landscape, New Orleans will become a haven for all sorts of fish and birds, and will have a feel and a character all of its own, but for entirely different reasons.
I think the thing which makes this so tough is the question of whether we can afford not to rebuild New Orleans in some fashion; keep in mind that it’s an absolutely gigantic shipping hub, and that there’s really nowhere else for shipping to come into the Mississippi. So a major port city of some sort has to exist pretty much where New Orleans has always been.
IMHO, as long as the French Quarter or any part of it remains, the city around it will be rebuilt. Humans get attached to people, places and things. Even if the ocean were to completely cover the entire French Quarter, where the edge of the land is, that’s where a new city will be born, or an existing city reborn. Just think of the tourism dollars that could be generated by an underwater national park!
Humans are drawn to the water like the clicheed moths to flames. Water= Life. It is imprinted in our DNA. Everywhere in the world there are cities at the shorelines– and the highest property values. Even you live at the edge, Mike. The conflict comes because shorelines are, by actuality if not definition, the crumbling edges of dry land; the constant battle of water and earth.
The fact is that the ancient cities at land’s end have had to move with the shoreline. It may be New Orleans time to start moving inland a bit.
Nice post, Mike. I would agree with you, if not for the point made by Cali. New Orleans is the French Quarter, and since it remains fairly well intact, I think it will be rebuilt. It’ll never be the same, but since that historical distract is there, it will be able to have some of the culture of the old New Orleans.
I’m not saying I necessarily think this is the best idea — but I think it’s what will happen. The city will be reborn around the French Quarter. It probably won’t be the same, but it’ll be a city nonetheless.
As someone who grew up with jazz and majored in jazz in college, it really pains me to know that the city will never be the same — but I know it won’t be.
You make some nice points in the post. I don’t think the city will be rebuilt as it was, nor do I think it should be. Some areas, like the garden district, might be lost forever. Historical sites will be preserved, even if they’re underwater – the flood only adds another layer of history and dirt to them. Who knows what businesses in downtown NO will do. Many of them cannot afford to wait until infrastructure is rebuilt.
But the French Quarter, thankfully far less damaged than many New Orlean’s neighborhoods and residential areas, must be restored – It is far too precious to lose.
New Orleans is coming back. Unfortunately, I think a lot of businesses will be driven away because of the flooding, leaving the city as a tourist attraction first and foremost. New Orleans will always be the city of Jazz, Cajun and Creole food, Voodoo, Mardi Gras, and of course, Cafe du Monde. I think the things that make New Orleans unique aren’t going to disappear because of a flood – everything else will take decades to re-build and re-evolve.
Anyone else wishing we had not spent that 300 billion (and counting) to eliminate WMDs install a pro US democracy in an oil rich country “spread freedom” to 26 million Iraqis?
This country hasn’t made a smart forward thinking fiscal decision in some time. I don’t expect them to start now. The overwhelming perception that the initial government response was slow and blind will mean, as Pedro points out, that money will be thrown at the issue in an attempt to defuse further criticism.
Mike asks “what’s the best way out of this situation?”
Jeez I have no idea. I’m still digesting the immediate fallout in the form of the victims’ stories now making there way onto NPR and in the NYT.
On one hand I find the notion of building/rebuilding a city below sea level in a hurricane high traffic area completey retarded and a gross waste of resources. On the other hand we have the engineering capability to build a solid margin of safety and I have 0 emotional attachments to NO.
An interesting bit of history – in the ancient worlds, you can literally map regime/dynasty changes to massive floods.
Sorry I forgot to post this. It is the best chain of events I have seen to date on New Orleans. It really captures how the moods went from relief to panic over the days. Way better than the AP crap that has gone out. Check it out.
Hmm well the problem arises the govenor of new orleans even back in May was concerned about the future of his city.. so why spend hundreds of billions resurecting a city that has an unsure future anyway? Surely it would be better to move those that lived there and create a new safier community
Mike: Thank you for the link to the Katrina’s Angels web site. I just want to point out that there are many people who are giving more time then I have to organize volunteers and find jobs and housing for the displaced people. We are one of the few groups that are focusing on getting people jobs at this point. Also, just to correct you, I donated my time to design the website and logo but it is actually Tony Coolidge of ATAYAL who set up the organization and has helped recruit leaders and volunteers to actually find the jobs and work with FEMA and other organizations to get the job offers to the people in need.
I’m so inspired by the notes in the volunteer database that we have setup. There are people who have MS and other diseases and illnesses who are just begging us to let them know what they can do to help out from their homes as well as companies such as SuperCuts or Hair Cuttery (I forget which) that are working with the Red Cross to collect money but have also offered us a ton of job positions to fill. If I’m not mistaken about 1000 positions and have even worked out a deal with the state to get those people certified in less time then it usually takes to transfer to the state.
Pedro: That is great glimpse into the events in Louisiana. Having been through many hurricanes myself, I feel lucky to have only lost my fences in the back yard and power for about a week last year. It was much more uncomfortable then a picture can show. Imagining a home destroyed by water makes me feel damned lucky in fact.
The American Government needs to ask the question “If sea levels rise by several metres over the next few years, what are we going to do?” Your $200 billion will be wasted if this does indeed happen.
George Bush doesn’t seem to believe the evidence of many environmental scientists and so it seems likely he will vote to rebuild. The wise thing must surely be to rebuild those parts on higher ground and take into account a possible 5 metre rise in sea levels permanently.
Well, in regards to studies that support global warming you can’t believe everything that you hear. I’m sure some studies do try to be accurate but at the same time when your research team is funded by government grants then it usually only the findings that support popular opinion that get continued funding. If you go to get support saying “I wish to prove that global warming is not caused by automobiles” then you might as well try getting financial support by saying “We wish to prove that tobacco is harmless”..
Bad example, we can be pretty sure that smoking is unhealthy. But my point is just that there have been findings that show global warming is not a result of humans. Just 1 more example. Last year Florida had the worst hurricane season that I have ever seen it have. I heard many stories about how this is the result of waters warming in the Atlantic because of global warming. Well it is just funny that there was an issue of Popular Science in the early 90′s which spoke about hurricanes and what causes them and it stated that in the next 15 years Florida would be in for some killer storms. Sure enough right on cue we are having more intense hurricanes. So they were already predicted based on a natural cycle rather then what scientists later claimed when they wanted to use these hurricanes as a way to further their careers.
As far as the waters rising, if the polar ice caps were to entirely melt away it would change every weather pattern on the planet and completely screw up our climate, but if you put an ice cube in a glass of water, mark the line and then check the line after the ice melts then you will notice the water level doesn’t change much if at all.. which is why ice burgs are mostly under water, because the water molecules getting denser also get heavier and as it freezes it sinks and so less space has more weight and it pretty much equals out. I’ve actually never put this theory to the test so don’t hate me if I am wrong. (It wouldn’t be the first time)
I do agree that rebuilding on higher ground would be a wise choice but what would have been wiser is to have re-enforced the levies to begin with which would have been much less then $200 billion! They knew it would happen and all it would take is a direct hit from a hurricane or even one just coming close. – oh well, that was yesterday and we have no choce but to focus on now and tomorrow.
I have yet to find a scientific source that doesn’t acknowledge some degree of climate or environmental change driven by the emissions of a growing human population.
And no you should not believe everything you hear.
1) The amount of psuedo science presented by mass media as hard science, plus
2) the intellectual gap between scientific data, and journalists drawing conclusions from that data, plus
3) the enormous gap in political and dollar capitol between the environmental community and the those that stand to gain from loose emission regulations . . .
Are producing this environmentalism backlash where the larger global warming issue is not taken serioulsy. And to make matters worse, you have the gung ho elements of the environmentalist community making Katrina the poster child of global warming – a polarization that ends up discrediting the scientific community and further fueling the current backlash against them.
What sucks is that while this whole obfuscation brews among the general poulace, the corporations sit back grinning.
But I digress.
… this town, so prone to very frequent disasters like this …
Because we all remember the last time NO was completely destroyed, yes? Sorry, but I just have to point out this egregious error. NO does flood frequently, and sees hurricanes often, but a category 4/5 hurricane only comes around the Mississippi Delta about once every hundred years.
(Editor’s Note: Not sure about that, Questionable Intelligence. I’m only 30 so I wasn’t around in 1947, but the city was under 6 feet of standing water due to a hurricane then as well. The area appears to get hit or miss very closely a LOT more than once every 100 years. And now that hurricanes are becoming more frequent in the world, the danger only increases. That’s all I’m saying.)
You also seem to be very dismissive of NO’s value as something other than a tourist destination. According to The Wikipedia, the Port of New Orleans docks about 5000 ships per year, making it one of the busiest ports in the world. Additionally, 6 Class I freight rail lines connect to NO. (Don’t forget about all that petrol in the Gulf, either.)
Chris Poole, rebuilding NO is almost, but not completely, entirely unlike rebuilding the WTC.
New Orleans is not dictated by architecture (alot of that is standing strong right now), or the food (restaurants will re-open), or the music (clubs will reopen and the musicians will now have audiences all over more than before), IT IS THE PEOPLE.
If you know New Orleans and understand it, you know this is true. When the die hards move back and others are turned into Nola Converts the city will be like it was but better. Yes we will lose some of the culture but we can reinvent and keep the core attitude in place.
I think it can be better because we have been given a second chance. Community-Centered Schools, Raised rail transportation out of the city, a Seawall system, better pumps, evacuation plans, Green Building strategies, etc.. All of these can be and will be implemented if New Orleans residents speak up and are involved in the Discussion of NOLA 2.0.
The federal government has a huge image problem because of what happened and we need them to make New Orleans and the Gulf Coast an example of American innovation and man-power.
Sorry for the rant.
some links:
http://nolainitiative.org
http://humidbeings.com
The only problem I see in the huge amount of money being thrown at them is that it’s been known for years that something like this would happen if a huge storm went through. I’ve heard that they could not have totally prevented this with the methods used to stop storms. But I do know that they could have lessened the impact for a lot less than 300 billion dollars.
This will no doubt be a wakeup call that is long overdue for building a better defense against flooding and one that should have been built 20 years ago. Last year when Louisiana had some close calls it should have had more of an impact. But even if it had, it would take a good 15 years to build stronger levies and other flood defenses and probably about 10 billion dollars. Such a large yet small amount of money compared to the 100 – 200 billion that it will take to now fix the damage.
I agree with humidhaney, it is of course about the people. I only care that they can get back to a relatively normal life. As far as I’m concerned they would be taking a big risk moving back in the next 10 years or more , With companies like Walmart offering employees a job at any other Walmart in the state, or Super Cuts creating 100 new jobs in Florida or many others looking to help people live a normal life again elsewhere. They should take that opportunity now and look at moving back to the place they love when it has been made safer.
What George W. Bush put the american money? Why Bush start Iraq war and spent BILIONS of dollors, and when americans need money to save his ower people, the stupit white-protestant-dork president of the most rich country in the world, THE United States of American need money from people! This is the biggest joke that I ever heard! This is the most stupid question that America could tell! Why Bush spent money doing wars when his people need him? For my people, in South America, this is a joke! For Africans this is a Joke. Milions of people is dying of AIDS in Africa. And now American presidente need money of the world to safe New Orlean. I can spent my money with America! I will never do this!
I have to disagree with this. If this attitude prevailed in 1906, they wouldn’t have re-built San Francisco. Or, again in ’89 after the Loma Prieta quake.
What about London? Has it lost it’s character? (It’s been re-built…)
Hoping for another great article on standards or design, but sadly your site has descended to soapboxing and flatulant blogging. In your entry, you make a lot of ridiculous and misleading points.
- Many think the real number will be well north of this. $300 billion or more.
Who and what are their qualifications? Your poker buddies?
-prone tovery frequent disasters
Name a couple others that were “disasters” of this magnitude. Otherwise go protest Jeb in Florida.
- For a family of six on welfare, that’s $2.4 million
You imply, albeit with great sublety, that most of the residents are poor and somehow lesser. This may not have been your intention, but you chose welfare as an example for its emotional implication. You never stated if giving money to welfare recipients was good or bad, but you don’t seem to like the amount of money that averages out to per person, even though what it really means is money for public utilities, housing and governmental
infrastructure.
Also you fail to mention that much of the rebuilding cost will come from insurance and property owners who invested in this town. Why do they want to rebuild. For the same reason you would want to. They watched their life’s work get swept away and they want it back.
I would think twice before doing another opinion piece.
-A
Sure it is. If democracy is about “leveling” the playground between people so that “what your daddy was don’t affect who you can be,” then government should definitely level the playground of New Orleans and many other states where the majority of under-privileged people are colored folks, and the majority of the privileged people are white folks. We can definitely tell when we turn on the TV that people are not being equally treated, and we know how those people look like…
i can’t believe i typoed subtlety.
that’t the last time i let myself rant again.
I thought I would post this after your edit. It’s a website that I’m building to help prospective employees to find jobs in the Katrina disaster area:
Katrina Employment Project
The site is almost complete, and it should be functional and open to the public beginning the end of this week.
In regards to your post, I agree entirely. I think our money might very well be better spent rebuilding New Orleans in a safer location. But who knows what developments may come around.
Oh, Colin. Ice is not heavier than water, it forms a lattice of atoms that is actually less dense then liquid water. And think of how much ice on the polar ice caps is not submerged in the sea, hence not raising the water level until it melts.
Alex: Easy there fireball. Soapboxing and “flatulent” blogging? What cause am I soapboxing for? I have no expertise in rebuilding large cities and I’m pretty sure you don’t either, so until either of us do, how about we just let each other speak without getting agro about it?
1. You asked where the $300 billion number came from. The Associated Press (via MSNBC.com). I’m in no position to say whether that’s right or wrong… and that’s why I never did.
2. You asked about other disasters in New Orleans. Hurricane Betsy or any of the others listed here. Apparently, a hurricane makes a direct hit on New Orleans about every 13.4 years. Are most of them this bad? Hell no. But they can certainly be much much worse with a dead-on hit (which Katrina wasn’t).
3. With regards to most residents of New Orleans being comparatively poor, yes, sorry but they are. There are only a few large cities in the U.S., in fact, which have lower household incomes than New Orleans. Are the citizens “lesser” people? You said that… not me. My pointing out of the $2.4 million number was meant only to illustrate that if the government is indeed going to spend $200 billion to rebuild New Orleans, it’s certainly not for the impoverished family of six who now doesn’t have a home. It would take a lot less than $2.4 million to save that family.
4. Finally, you said “I would think twice before doing another opinion piece.” You know what? Go fuck yourself. Seriously, go do it. I’ve never said that to a reader before, but if you expect to come to this site for articles on web design and development and then tell me what I can and can’t talk about, I don’t even want you here. Go crap on someone else’s lawn. And by the way, was this even an opinion piece? I don’t recall ever taking a stand one way or the other.
Mike: I hardly think it would have been a problem if you had voiced a strong opinion for 1 direction of another. It’s your site, you can voice an opinion and your users, myself included, can choose to agree or disagree.
Gyujin Park: I am not sure WHAT you are trying to say here. Problem #1 is that you are basing opinions on what you see on the news and the news IS NOT EVER an accurate method of delivering the truth. Everyone I know who lives in or around New Orleans (or used to) are white and also poor. The fact that the population of the city is mostly black really means nothing. I don’t think Louisiana has ever been a big spot for making it rich regardless of race so what are you talking about? You shouldn’t make issues about skin color that don’t exist just like you shouldn’t base opinions on the news.
Mike: Here here, I think Alex needed to take a nap before he wrote that up… ;)
Actually Collin: New Orleans has had some big pay days in the past. I was just watching something on the History Channel last night (they really churn that stuff out fast). New Orleans originally was wealthy from the simple fact that it’s at the mouth of the Mississippi River. Even today a lot of trade and traffic goes right past there.
And once they discovered natural gas and oil (again the Mississippi has a helping hand) it obviously (by the gas price freak out) became important for those industries.
Remarkably they even mentioned my previous point about the lack of foresight when the city went to the federal level looking for about 12-14 billion to fix the antiquated system. I’m so happy I wasn’t totally talking out my ass. ;)
Thanks History Channel!
It upsets me to no end that they didn’t do something about it sooner. Now it cost lives and will cost all of us financially. I don’t even like to think about it.
The American government will never do the ethically or morally correct thing unless it coincides with the politically correct decision, and the politically correct decision is always, “How can we make money off of this?” Witness the fact that Halliburton has already been awarded the first of many contracts in the rebuilding of New Orleans. This isn’t about people’s lives, it never was. It’s about profit. The American government may publicly bemoan the cost but good ol boys inside the network are drooling at the prospect of revenues and kickbacks that will more than cover the losses. How much of the billions that will be spent will actually make it to New Orleans or the affected areas? If it works the same as it has in Iraq, not much I suspect.
Alex, I would think twice before submitting a condescending response to an “opinion piece” ;-)
I think my favorite part is this:
Alex: Many think the real number will be well north of this. $300 billion or more. Who and what are their qualifications? Your poker buddies?
Mike: The Associated Press.
Checkmate.
Bryan
It seems that people keep pointing fingers at the federal government after this whole mess up. There are some things people are not even considering in all this.
New Orleans was well aware of their below sea-level city. Because of this they had an evacuation plan in place (believe it was drafted in the mid 90′s, you can check me on that). The plan was this, use all means of public transportation to get the citizens out, including blacks, whites, browns, greens, old, young, rich, poor, whoever the hell needed to get out. Public transportation includes public school and city buses. They had this drafted because they knew that some peolpe would be to old or sick or something to get out of the city.
Now where were all those buses after the storm? Under water with the rest of the city. New Orleans knew well ahead of time of this approaching storm. People were so pissed because all of these people that were stuck down there. If this mayor who loved all the media attention, would have stuck to a plan that the city implemted in the first place, he could have done a lot of good for his city. But wait no, I forgot, it was the federal governments fault.
One more thing…state of emergency’s are a state issue, not a federal issue. It becomes a federal issue once the state government asks formaly for help. This was not asked for 2 days already into the fiasco.
I am not sticking up for this administration or anything like that at all. Its just that people need to look a little more into it before they believe everything our shitty media tells us.
Collin: How is it not an racial and socioeconomic issue? News is one way to tell. It certainly is whether or not they are trying to point out and exaggerate something to their advantage. Doesn’t mean I believe in every single thing that they report. If the government doesn’t pitch in to try to make the poor succeed so that they have equal competition, we have a problem.
And, if one news agency has a picture of a black person trying to take a few bottles of water from CVS and have a caption saying “he is looting,” and while other news agency with a picture of a white person trying to take a few bottles of water from CVS and have a caption saying “he is a family man trying to help is family.” Then, clearly we have a racial and social economic problem. Now, do I believe those comments by the photographer was consciously being a racist? No, but sub-consciously we all know we are racists because everybody looks at ourselves and compare it to other people with difference in appearance.
Now, as for the poor white folks that couldn’t get out when they were warned to, sure. I agree with you. It is clearly both a mixture of racial and socioeconomic issue. Arguing that the government didn’t help was not because of a social or racial issue but because “they just don’t” in a hurricaine situation is just as bad as saying the government is not helping because they are poor…
One more thing. Being a white person in America, both socially and economically has a better chance of succeeding than a colored person in America. Just the fact, but hard to swallow.
Gyujin: How is it a socio-economic problem in the stand point that you are looking at it? Ok…28.1% of the population is white in New Orleans. That puts a wopping 71.9% of the population there minorities, with 67.3% of that black. So how you are going to run off on how it is a race thing. Over 70% of the people there are not white. It is a minority (well in this case, a minority majority) city.
I do not have cable, but I have seen little bits and pieces of things on the internet on the looting. I would like to see that clip of a black man taking bottle’s of water being called a looter (I said water bottles, not flat screen TV’s). Just because the stupid ass media puts all this bullshit about race on TV, does not mean we have to listen to them. Its called forming your own opinion. TV is for ratings, they are going to show the best bullshit possible to entertain and to keep people at their station.
Instead of looking at everyone as people, everyone took this stupid ass race card and ran with it. I mean again….it is a minority ran city. That is probably why you saw more black people on TV. This whole race card shit is just stupid. Its peolple like you that don’t look as everyone as people, but rather white, black, hispanic and this and that.
One more thing…
Being a white person in America, both socially and economically has a better chance of succeeding than a colored person in America.
You keep telling yourself that bullshit and you will prove that saying just right.
Pedro:
Right, there are many cities that suffer racial and socioeconmic problems even without the hurricaine. The hurricaine just fucked things up and showed the reality.
Sure, I’ll grab the article from the newspapers and scan it. I’ll have both the one on the black man and the caption, and the one on the white man and the caption scanned in sometime tomorrow.
Believe it or not, I just did. It is a racial and socioeconomic issue. As Mrs. Barbara Bush puts it, they are underprivileged people seeking for help. She even outright says it is a socioeconomic problem.
– Source
Majority of my sources are not from TVs. I rarely watch TV, and the TV clips I mentioned were some things I wizzed by somewhere. Most of my resources are from the newspapers and NPR. I don’t have cable, and TV is not my form of entertainment either.
Yes, everyone fucked up here. There are so many things involved in this disaster that we can declare that everyone fucked it up. But doesn’t mean this didn’t include a racial issue.
And you claim yourself to see the world differently? Do you not lock your door when you see a black man walk by your nice car? Do you not look at the hispanics selling roses with the thought about the possibility of them being illegal immigrants? If not, perhaps your neighborhood is rather homogenous and do not have racial poverty problems.
It is you that are being ignorant and not seeing things from a different perspective. If you were one of the person in New Orleans you are going to help, or some might put it “loot,” to try to get food and basic necessities to the people in the convention center.
You will never know it until you actually become a minority. I know, now, it is shameful to be a outright racist, and people like to hide racist traits as much as possible, which I don’t have a problem with. But denying the history and facts that happened, and denying the situation because you feel guilty about it is just as bad as being one.
Barbara Bush was making ”a personal observation” when she said poor people at a relocation center in Houston were faring better than before Hurricane Katrina struck
Thats the most obvious fucking statement ever made.
I mean come on. I am a student, with no income. Hell, if I was there right now, I would be better off. Supply of food, money, people helping me out…come on.
Backtrack here. Ok, like Mike said in one of his comments, it is a poorer city than most in the US. As in, that means that they have a large population that is poorer than most here. Which means the most obvious thing in the world…of course you can label it as socioeconomic, this whole damn world is a socioeconomic pool. Before the hurricane came, there socioeconomic breakdown was there: they had all classes, rich, middle, poor and everything in between. In case you forgot what the word meant, here you go:
Of or involving both social and economic factors.
You are jumping now and changing the original topic. My basis was you talking about this stupid race shit. I proved my point as to why people came up with that conclusion and you agreed with me.
The hurricaine just fucked things up and showed the reality.
What reality. That there are actually not only poor people in other countries, but in this country as well. Give me a break. Did you just realize this. Yes it did fuck things up…don’t tell anyone…but that’s what hurricane’s can do.
But doesn’t mean this didn’t include a racial issue.
No, it did not. You make it into one. Again…it is a majority minority city, that means it would be a majority of minorities there at any given time.
And you claim yourself to see the world differently? Do you not lock your door when you see a black man walk by your nice car? Do you not look at the hispanics selling roses with the thought about the possibility of them being illegal immigrants?
Ummm no and no. What the fuck is your thinking on this? You are over here just proving your whole personality. Its people like you that view this country with all this race shit. You just contradicted yourself.
You will never know it until you actually become a minority
I am considered a fucking minority. Do I use that stupid bullshit? No! I am my own person who controls my own future. Not you. Not some other guy or girl. I do. It will always be like that. Being successful in life is not given to you, you earn it through hard work, regardless of background or race. Enough said!
You can find examples to support any moronic theories that you have. Isolated cases. Seeing a white person stealing bottles and make a statement that he is trying to save his family is a true statement. Seeing a black person steal the same bottles and say that he is looting is also true. Reverse those and they are still true.. Both are looting and both are doing what they gotta do.
I still say don’t base your opinions on TV or news articles. If starting a movement against the evil racist white folk is what you want then why don’t you get off your ass and drive down to rally up some of the repressed black people to help you fight the good fight? See how many black people you can get on board with your campaign.
I’ve been to Mississippi and Louisiana and talked to many people who you want to help save. Trust me on this one, they don’t need your help and if they did they would ask for it! What irritates me is that I know you have never been through the area and never talked to people who live(d) there. I have and they were some of the nicest folks I have met on the road with my family.
Ah. I didn’t change topics. I already said it was both socioeconomic and racial issue. You took the racial one and made an argument, which I respect.
I have no problem with the hurricaine destroying things as it is a natural disaster. The response that the government made and what they are making clearly shows how they don’t care about the poor. Coincidentally, it seems like most the poor are the colored folks with no political power or ecomical advantage.
It is like me saying Columbus killed the Indians and it was a genocide. and somebody jumping in and saying, you made into one by saying it was a genocide. Hey, take your side, this is mine.
It’s people like you that view this country without all this race shit.
Ah yes. My question would be, even if it says we are all equal, but if somebody from a ghetto has a slim chance of being successful, is everybody ultimately equal? I’d say no.
Not so moronic, sir, some highschool histriography teachers and philosophers in Harvard universities argue this point. I appreciate your point of view but calling the other side moronic is just not right. Read the New York Times Op-Ed, you will see some of my points.
As I said earlier, I did not call somebody an outright racist. Every individual is being subconciously a racist, and I just don’t enjoy the fact that they deny it. How can I tell? Well, read a book called Freakonomics Mr. Levitt, he will give you the exact figures. But when a person who has a colored folks name in the United States submit their application to a company, he or she will have a drastically less chance of getting a reply.
I didn’t just meet people, sir. I have my aunt and uncle living in Mississippi who were affected by the Hurricaine. As for your comment on “people not needing my help if they don’t ask for it”, is like saying in the slavery days, slaves don’t need to be educated or learn how to read or write because they don’t ask for it.
Assumptions about another person is very bad when it comes to debating. Again, my aunt and uncle lives in Mississippi, and I’ve been there recently, and my aunt even came up to Baltimore to see me and my family.
Yes, there are always the nicest folks, and that is what makes life wonderful :)
Your right we both have our own opinions and I respect that. The problem is you want this to be some perfect world.
My question would be, even if it says we are all equal, but if somebody from a ghetto has a slim chance of being successful, is everybody ultimately equal?
No, not everyone will always be equal, that is life my friend. If you are white coming from the ghetto you would have a slim chance of being successful as well. Coming from a poor background does have its disadvantages, but does it mean it can’t be done…no. To you though everything is being poor and being black. That is all you ever say. You are always puting the two together. There are successful black people in this country, but not as many as whites. There will never be as many as whites. The reason for this…obvious, blacks only take up a 12.1% of the total population, with white at 75%. Times are changing though. With people always having this negative race attitude, we will never get passed it because it will always be there.
They rebuilt Hiroshima:
http://www.pcf.city.hiroshima.jp/kids/KPSH_E/hiroshima_e/sadako_e/subcontents_e/17ima_1_e.html
I seems humans just like to do that. Maybe some things are more important to our collective spirit than money.
Ahh. I do want this to be a perfect world and I do moral reasoning to be a perfect person even though I know it would never be. But without the pursuit of perfection, I would never even go close to being “good enough.”
Ah. Yes, life is not equal. and it is true that a person from the white neighborhood also has a slim chance. But, if both race is put into an equal ground, whites tend to have more advantage. Advanced statistics, research papers and experiements tells us. And I do associate being poor and being a colored folk because that is what the majority of American ghettos are like. No, and that was not all I ever said. I even mentioned about poor white folks not being able come out from the hurricaine disaster because of the whole socioeconomic issue point that I started along with the racial issue.
Sole contribution to due the lack of success rates in blacks to the number and proportion is probably not good reasoning, and rather false statistics. The average income among black people in America is significantly lower than white folks. Of course, for Hispanics, and others have even less power. Look at European history and the steps that America took. We are clearly seeing the results of history, now.
There is a reason to the negative race attitude because the whole issue of slavery and domination is not something that happened far far away or millions of years ago. The life of a slave was “short, brutish, and nasty.” And how can we forget that? If your ancestors were beat up to death and treated as cockroaches, you probably don’t want your child to forget about what happened. We should never get pass by it. Just like how people say they will never forget the moment went terrorists attacked and knocked down the twin towers. People just don’t forget about hatred, and they shouldn’t. If they do, it would be sad to see 1984 come true.
And how can we forget that? If your ancestors were beat up to death and treated as cockroaches, you probably don’t want your child to forget about what happened. We should never get pass by it.
That is such an ignorant comment. If that was the case, the whole world is fucked. There will never be peace. Any conflict in the past between countries has brought hatred. If people did not move on from it, how in hell is this world ever going to progress. Palestine and Jerusalem, should they for the next 300 years continue hating each other, or try to make progress? Hell, even worse, should all Jews hate the Germans for what they did 60 years back.
I am not trying to justify the past, not at all. It was bad, I do agree. But it was the past. We have to try to move on from it. Holding a grudge is not going to do anyone good.
All I got to say is this. You are your own person who controls your own future. If the whole I am a black man thing is going to be your excuse for not getting places, then I am sorry for that, live in the past then.
Perhaps I wasn’t clear enough in this point. We should never forget about things that happened at the past and think lightly of it.
Do I hate the white man for something he did a couple of hundred years ago? No. I just remember history.
Ah. That is not my excuse of living my own life. My hope is that what I do will actually have enough influence to be successful. But, I know the reality is not as easy as it sounds like. I’m just rambling the statistics.
I’m a student, and have a lot to look forward to the future, and how I can become successful and all that. Do I not do my home work and grudglingly say it is the slavery that happened a couple of hundred years ago is the reason why I am not doing my best? No, I’m merely arguing that the results we see are sad and tragic remnants of history.
Alright. I just realized I had tons of grammar and spelling mistakes in the last few comments I made. I am sorry and pardon me for the ignorance but I was making comments when I was suppose to be doing other things. I’m not good at spelling or have solid grammar skills. I hope you understand. Cheers :)
My hope is that what I do will actually have enough influence to be successful. But, I know the reality is not as easy as it sounds like.
Your future is as easy or hard as you make it. You have every chance of landing a job as I do. Especially in our line of field.
Best of luck with everything you do!
Well apparently Gyujin isn’t the only one bring up the race topic. Seems like there are an aweful lot of talk and accusations going towards the president that his administrations response is because of racist views and yadda yadda.. Good god wtf are people coming to when all that can be done is point fingers and label people. I even found a top listed Islamic news site on Google that went so far as quote a source for saying that America is heading towards a new civil war because this disaster. It’s sad how little people think about the ablity of black and white Americans to get along. You want a *EXPLETIVE* war? How about *ALL* colors of American citizens vs the *EXPLETIVE**EXPLETIVE* media and their closest friends and relatives.
Now someone come and give me a God *EXPLETIVE* hug!
Collin: Funny stuff! I could not agree with you more.
New Orleans is one of the few cities that, for me, make up, the soul of this country. It can be said its usual disrepair and delicate state that has now lapsed into disaster and partial ruin is evidence that we must abandon it and move on. But to abandon New Orleans is to reject our responsibility for all things rendered even more precious by its fragility and aging but lasting beauty. To cast off New Orleans is to cast off a vital part of American history. Some of that history still exists. Aside from its obvious tourism, New Orleans is a vital port, servicing as it has for centuries shipping at the mouth of the Delta. There is a cultural element, the unique mix of musical forms that have shaped the inimitable sounds of American music. There is art and architecture and evidence of a past that remains with us.
Perhaps the amount of money to rebuild the city will amount to a per capita cost of $400 odd thousand. But then, once we offer the buy out there is no hope of any return on that investment. There is no hope of regenerating commerce or preserving the culture so unique to the Crescent City. Clearly, old methods of holding back the seawater must give way to modern technology. If overall the old technology has enabled New Orleans to remain standing for these past centuries, certainly modern efforts should incease its lifespan for at least another several hundred years.
Let’s not be hasty to abandon New Orleans. After all, it is a magical city and the ultimate American city of sin and redemption. It deserves our consideraiton..
Am i the only one that wonders why New Orleans sat for over 100 years and did nothing about their bowl situation? Galveston lost 8000-12000 in 1900. They scrimped and got a seawall built and the city raised to 23 ft. This paid off in 1915 when another storm came and killed 300. New Orleans knew this and apparetnly did not have the sense to apply it to their situation. Galveston lost 8000 at 8 ft above. What did New Orleans think was to happen at 10 ft below?
As a resident of New Orleans, I can say that this type of thinking is just ignorant. I certainly didn’t get — and won’t get — 2.4 million dollars in restitution from our government. I was lucky to get a few grand. And the money that this administration is giving the city is being largely doled out to friends of George W. Bush. For example, our trash pick-up has been subcontracted to a friend of his in Texas, and they’ve put out new “improved” trash receptacles throughout the city, with microchips (!) in them, in case they get lost. These are special trash cans that the trucks can lift up so the workers don’t have to physically lift them. The French Quarter is now littered with these oversized trash cans for each household (albeit slightly smaller versions), which isn’t practical considering the population density there — they can no longer put out regular trash cans. They used to just put out trash bags, with daily pick-up. So, if you want to complain about wasted money, there’s a place you can start.
Also, people who complain about the amount of money necessary to rebuild the city often don’t realize that unlike other oil-producing states, Louisiana doesn’t get to keep royalties from the money it produces from its oil industry. Places like Texas and other oil producing states keep a portion of that revenue. If New Orleans could keep the same portion, it would be as rich as Dubai (that’s one of the Arab nations off Saudi, for those who don’t know). So, complaining about the tax dollars used to rebuild New Orleans is a bit…disingenuous, to say the least. You’d just be allowing us to have access to the money we already should have access to in the first place.
On the issue of just moving the city elsewhere, New Orleans, unlike many US cities, actually has a history to it, and isn’t an amorphous, sterile mass of McDonald’s and Wal-Marts. Anyone with an appreciation for its history and architecture will know you can’t just rebuild it up the river. Also, if you’re going to move every city that is in harm’s way, you should get rid of Los Angeles (earthquakes) and New York (future hurricanes) while you’re at it. Miami is a ticking timebomb and the Mid-West will eventually be devastated by tornadoes…get the picture?
New Orleans could have done more to prevent this situation beforehand, if it had done more to elect apresident like John Kerry. I, like a (woefully) few others in our state, was upset with the fact that the Bush administration actually PULLED MONEY AWAY from our coastal wetlands restoration fund (a crucial storm buffer), and I decided to volunteer for the Kerry campaign. I had to knock on many doors in the Lakeview area to inform people about the lack of needed funding for our wetlands, and how our city would soon be underwater if we continued our present course. I didn’t realize at the time just how prophetic my words would be. Those houses are now shelled out ruins. The Taco Bell our canvassers had lunch at that day, is now an empty ruin. Wake up, people. Tomorrow, this could be YOUR city.
In 1978 I was working for a mapping company that did a topographic map of New Orleans. I was surprised to find out that just about all of New Orleans is below sea level.
What we are asking the Federal government to do is to built a wall around the city because the sea level is rising thanks to global warming.
When it floods in your city, does the local government buy out the houses in the flood plains? This is what will most likely happen when the home owners are unable to return.