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> <channel><title>Comments on: Giving Full Typographic Control to the User</title> <atom:link href="http://www.mikeindustries.com/blog/archive/2004/06/font-selector/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" /><link>http://www.mikeindustries.com/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&#038;feed=Articles+%28RSS2%29&#038;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mikeindustries.com%2Fblog%2Farchive%2F2004%2F06%2Ffont-selector&#038;seed_title=Giving+Full+Typographic+Control+to+the+User</link> <description>A running commentary of occasionally interesting things.</description> <lastBuildDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2012 07:03:27 +0000</lastBuildDate> <sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod> <sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency> <generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator> <item><title>By: Didier Hilhorst</title><link>http://www.mikeindustries.com/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&#038;feed=Articles+%28RSS2%29&#038;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mikeindustries.com%2Fblog%2Farchive%2F2004%2F06%2Ffont-selector&#038;seed_title=Giving+Full+Typographic+Control+to+the+User/comment-page-1#comment-128</link> <dc:creator>Didier Hilhorst</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">#comment-128</guid> <description>There was a time when I did not like to give full control to users for anything. Period. I have changed that attitude slightly due to the nature of this medium. But I wonder if offering the level of font customization you write about is useful. This blog&#039;s audience, such as designer and coders out there, might give it a go.  But what about the average user? Do they really care what font they are reading. I doubt if most average users even know the difference between Helvetica and Verdana, for example. As long as text is readable I think users do not care what font is used (within reason.)Furthermore I think the browser is the best tool for resizing text, as opposed to alternative stylesheets, for example. Internet Explorer is an issue in that regard, but Safari, Firefox and Opera offer solid font resizing capabilities. So right now alternative stylesheets are a good and useful way to provide users of Internet Explorer with a working alternative. Personally I think Opera gets it right by zooming in the entire page, as opposed to only text. Atleast in that case I know my layout will not brake or look bizarre.In my opinion typography is not only a matter of readability, it is foremost a matter of style. But I have to admit that the web is place where the selection is limited. Very limited. Using Flash is an option, but realistically only for headlines and similar shorter passages. Eventually your customization tool does not get in the way, on the contrary. Users can either use it or decide to ignore it and trust the default settings. Personally I prefer to trust the judgement of the designer and go with whatever the feel was right.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There was a time when I did not like to give full control to users for anything. Period. I have changed that attitude slightly due to the nature of this medium. But I wonder if offering the level of font customization you write about is useful. This blog&#8217;s audience, such as designer and coders out there, might give it a go.  But what about the average user? Do they really care what font they are reading. I doubt if most average users even know the difference between Helvetica and Verdana, for example. As long as text is readable I think users do not care what font is used (within reason.)</p><p>Furthermore I think the browser is the best tool for resizing text, as opposed to alternative stylesheets, for example. Internet Explorer is an issue in that regard, but Safari, Firefox and Opera offer solid font resizing capabilities. So right now alternative stylesheets are a good and useful way to provide users of Internet Explorer with a working alternative. Personally I think Opera gets it right by zooming in the entire page, as opposed to only text. Atleast in that case I know my layout will not brake or look bizarre.</p><p>In my opinion typography is not only a matter of readability, it is foremost a matter of style. But I have to admit that the web is place where the selection is limited. Very limited. Using Flash is an option, but realistically only for headlines and similar shorter passages. Eventually your customization tool does not get in the way, on the contrary. Users can either use it or decide to ignore it and trust the default settings. Personally I prefer to trust the judgement of the designer and go with whatever the feel was right.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Dan Benjamin</title><link>http://www.mikeindustries.com/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&#038;feed=Articles+%28RSS2%29&#038;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mikeindustries.com%2Fblog%2Farchive%2F2004%2F06%2Ffont-selector&#038;seed_title=Giving+Full+Typographic+Control+to+the+User/comment-page-1#comment-129</link> <dc:creator>Dan Benjamin</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">#comment-129</guid> <description>This is a very nice technique!  Great work.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a very nice technique!  Great work.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Milan Negovan</title><link>http://www.mikeindustries.com/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&#038;feed=Articles+%28RSS2%29&#038;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mikeindustries.com%2Fblog%2Farchive%2F2004%2F06%2Ffont-selector&#038;seed_title=Giving+Full+Typographic+Control+to+the+User/comment-page-1#comment-130</link> <dc:creator>Milan Negovan</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">#comment-130</guid> <description>Great post, Mike!I post quite a lof ot code samples (X/HTML, CSS, C#, etc) on my site, and my biggest scare with giving too much control over fonts is whether this code enclosed in &lt;pre&gt; tags still fits in the content area. :) I&#039;ve added a text size switcher, but I know up front how wide a &lt;pre&gt; area may get.Since I float columns IE may push one underneath the other should it get too wide. Firefox and Opera handle it just fine, as you know. A slight overlap is no biggie.Is there a good way to facilitate font selection and make sure code samples don&#039;t go wild?</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post, Mike!</p><p>I post quite a lof ot code samples (X/HTML, CSS, C#, etc) on my site, and my biggest scare with giving too much control over fonts is whether this code enclosed in &lt;pre&gt; tags still fits in the content area. :) I&#8217;ve added a text size switcher, but I know up front how wide a &lt;pre&gt; area may get.</p><p>Since I float columns IE may push one underneath the other should it get too wide. Firefox and Opera handle it just fine, as you know. A slight overlap is no biggie.</p><p>Is there a good way to facilitate font selection and make sure code samples don&#8217;t go wild?</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Blake Scarbrough</title><link>http://www.mikeindustries.com/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&#038;feed=Articles+%28RSS2%29&#038;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mikeindustries.com%2Fblog%2Farchive%2F2004%2F06%2Ffont-selector&#038;seed_title=Giving+Full+Typographic+Control+to+the+User/comment-page-1#comment-131</link> <dc:creator>Blake Scarbrough</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">#comment-131</guid> <description>Mike,
I like the option of choosing a font to use. However, I don&#039;t think you need to have the controls for switching the readability on every page in the right navigation, like you do now. You might want to consider making a specific page just for readibility. I really only see a visitor making that change once, so it is not needed on every page. Plus you could add other options like text color.By the way, I like what you have done with you site.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike,<br
/> I like the option of choosing a font to use. However, I don&#8217;t think you need to have the controls for switching the readability on every page in the right navigation, like you do now. You might want to consider making a specific page just for readibility. I really only see a visitor making that change once, so it is not needed on every page. Plus you could add other options like text color.</p><p>By the way, I like what you have done with you site.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Mike D.</title><link>http://www.mikeindustries.com/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&#038;feed=Articles+%28RSS2%29&#038;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mikeindustries.com%2Fblog%2Farchive%2F2004%2F06%2Ffont-selector&#038;seed_title=Giving+Full+Typographic+Control+to+the+User/comment-page-1#comment-132</link> <dc:creator>Mike D.</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">#comment-132</guid> <description>Yep, I agree with Didier in that in an ideal world the browser would specify the user&#039;s preferred font.  Unfortunately, a lot of people don&#039;t even know they can change their default font, and even if they do, that preference doesn&#039;t really get honored unless the designer specifies only &quot;serif&quot; or &quot;sans-serif&quot;.Here is what I do instead. I created a local stylesheet containing just this line:&lt;pre&gt;html, body, p, td, font {
font-family: &quot;Lucida Grande&quot; !important;
}&lt;/pre&gt;Then, in my browser preferences, I opted to use this custom stylesheet. I use Safari, but I believe you can do this in most browsers these days.  The end result is that a good 95% of body copy that I read on the web now is set in my typeface of choice, Lucida Grande.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yep, I agree with Didier in that in an ideal world the browser would specify the user&#8217;s preferred font.  Unfortunately, a lot of people don&#8217;t even know they can change their default font, and even if they do, that preference doesn&#8217;t really get honored unless the designer specifies only &#8220;serif&#8221; or &#8220;sans-serif&#8221;.</p><p>Here is what I do instead. I created a local stylesheet containing just this line:</p><pre>html, body, p, td, font {
	font-family: "Lucida Grande" !important;
}</pre><p>Then, in my browser preferences, I opted to use this custom stylesheet. I use Safari, but I believe you can do this in most browsers these days.  The end result is that a good 95% of body copy that I read on the web now is set in my typeface of choice, Lucida Grande.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Mike D.</title><link>http://www.mikeindustries.com/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&#038;feed=Articles+%28RSS2%29&#038;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mikeindustries.com%2Fblog%2Farchive%2F2004%2F06%2Ffont-selector&#038;seed_title=Giving+Full+Typographic+Control+to+the+User/comment-page-1#comment-133</link> <dc:creator>Mike D.</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">#comment-133</guid> <description>Milan: I hear you on the code sample thing.  The only 100% safe way I&#039;ve found to display code is between &lt; textarea &gt; tags. It&#039;s not super sexy but at least you can control the width of the textarea that way.Blake: Yep, I agree that users probably don&#039;t need to use the Readability widget more than once. I&#039;m starting to think about solutions where it may be very prominent on every page until you actually use it.  Then, after you use it, maybe it would appear only as a small &quot;Readability&quot; link, perhaps right above the Invalidator Badge.  Since the entire widget is rendered with this one line of javascript:&lt;pre&gt;renderReadability();&lt;/pre&gt;... it shouldn&#039;t be too hard to place it in different locations dynamically.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Milan: I hear you on the code sample thing.  The only 100% safe way I&#8217;ve found to display code is between &lt; textarea &gt; tags. It&#8217;s not super sexy but at least you can control the width of the textarea that way.</p><p>Blake: Yep, I agree that users probably don&#8217;t need to use the Readability widget more than once. I&#8217;m starting to think about solutions where it may be very prominent on every page until you actually use it.  Then, after you use it, maybe it would appear only as a small &#8220;Readability&#8221; link, perhaps right above the Invalidator Badge.  Since the entire widget is rendered with this one line of javascript:</p><pre>renderReadability();</pre><p>&#8230; it shouldn&#8217;t be too hard to place it in different locations dynamically.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: michelle</title><link>http://www.mikeindustries.com/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&#038;feed=Articles+%28RSS2%29&#038;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mikeindustries.com%2Fblog%2Farchive%2F2004%2F06%2Ffont-selector&#038;seed_title=Giving+Full+Typographic+Control+to+the+User/comment-page-1#comment-134</link> <dc:creator>michelle</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">#comment-134</guid> <description>i think that keeping at least a small link even after first use is important, in case they want to change back.also, is this something that would be remembered on the next visit, or would they have to reset each time?</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i think that keeping at least a small link even after first use is important, in case they want to change back.</p><p>also, is this something that would be remembered on the next visit, or would they have to reset each time?</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Dave S.</title><link>http://www.mikeindustries.com/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&#038;feed=Articles+%28RSS2%29&#038;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mikeindustries.com%2Fblog%2Farchive%2F2004%2F06%2Ffont-selector&#038;seed_title=Giving+Full+Typographic+Control+to+the+User/comment-page-1#comment-135</link> <dc:creator>Dave S.</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">#comment-135</guid> <description>What appeals to me about this is that I was able to set Myriad as my text face, and then &#039;tune&#039; it with the size drop down until it looked great on my monitor. Given the huge difference between unaliased Windows XP type and ultra-smooth OS X sub-pixel rendering, there&#039;s no one-size-fits-all solution for type. Allowing adjustment to taste is smart, nice job.(naturally, it&#039;s impossible to rely on in a production environment since no one else will use it; but it&#039;s a nice accoutrement for those who care!)</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What appeals to me about this is that I was able to set Myriad as my text face, and then &#8216;tune&#8217; it with the size drop down until it looked great on my monitor. Given the huge difference between unaliased Windows XP type and ultra-smooth OS X sub-pixel rendering, there&#8217;s no one-size-fits-all solution for type. Allowing adjustment to taste is smart, nice job.</p><p>(naturally, it&#8217;s impossible to rely on in a production environment since no one else will use it; but it&#8217;s a nice accoutrement for those who care!)</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Adrian Holovaty</title><link>http://www.mikeindustries.com/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&#038;feed=Articles+%28RSS2%29&#038;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mikeindustries.com%2Fblog%2Farchive%2F2004%2F06%2Ffont-selector&#038;seed_title=Giving+Full+Typographic+Control+to+the+User/comment-page-1#comment-136</link> <dc:creator>Adrian Holovaty</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">#comment-136</guid> <description>Nice idea, Mike!Regarding the problem that &quot;ComicSansMS&quot; works but &quot;Comic Sans&quot; doesn&#039;t:You could change your script to recognize a variety of spellings for each font. Seems like that&#039;d add a lot to the tool&#039;s usability. Looks like you&#039;re already doing that with Times and Trebuchet, which is a nice detail.Also, you might consider escaping double-quotes in that input box. Check out what happens when you add this as the font:times&quot;; display: none; font-family:&quot;timesI&#039;m not sure whether any fonts out there have double-quotes in their names, but it&#039;s probably worth escaping &#039;em in your tool.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice idea, Mike!</p><p>Regarding the problem that &#8220;ComicSansMS&#8221; works but &#8220;Comic Sans&#8221; doesn&#8217;t:</p><p>You could change your script to recognize a variety of spellings for each font. Seems like that&#8217;d add a lot to the tool&#8217;s usability. Looks like you&#8217;re already doing that with Times and Trebuchet, which is a nice detail.</p><p>Also, you might consider escaping double-quotes in that input box. Check out what happens when you add this as the font:</p><p>times&#8221;; display: none; font-family:&#8221;times</p><p>I&#8217;m not sure whether any fonts out there have double-quotes in their names, but it&#8217;s probably worth escaping &#8216;em in your tool.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Joost van der Borg</title><link>http://www.mikeindustries.com/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&#038;feed=Articles+%28RSS2%29&#038;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mikeindustries.com%2Fblog%2Farchive%2F2004%2F06%2Ffont-selector&#038;seed_title=Giving+Full+Typographic+Control+to+the+User/comment-page-1#comment-137</link> <dc:creator>Joost van der Borg</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">#comment-137</guid> <description>&lt;p&gt;Nice idea, though I too wonder there are any benefits for the casual user. Adding to Adrian&#039;s idea: try entering this:&lt;/p&gt;
&quot; } body { display: none }&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Or similar terribly messy things :D.. Had to delete the cookie to be able to view the site again!&lt;/p&gt;</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice idea, though I too wonder there are any benefits for the casual user. Adding to Adrian&#8217;s idea: try entering this:</p><p>&#8221; } body { display: none }</p><p>Or similar terribly messy things :D.. Had to delete the cookie to be able to view the site again!</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: paul haine</title><link>http://www.mikeindustries.com/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&#038;feed=Articles+%28RSS2%29&#038;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mikeindustries.com%2Fblog%2Farchive%2F2004%2F06%2Ffont-selector&#038;seed_title=Giving+Full+Typographic+Control+to+the+User/comment-page-1#comment-138</link> <dc:creator>paul haine</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">#comment-138</guid> <description>Milan: what about using the CSS overflow: scroll  property, so that if code gets too wide, it appears in a frame-like window with a horizontal scrollbar?</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Milan: what about using the CSS overflow: scroll  property, so that if code gets too wide, it appears in a frame-like window with a horizontal scrollbar?</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Eric</title><link>http://www.mikeindustries.com/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&#038;feed=Articles+%28RSS2%29&#038;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mikeindustries.com%2Fblog%2Farchive%2F2004%2F06%2Ffont-selector&#038;seed_title=Giving+Full+Typographic+Control+to+the+User/comment-page-1#comment-139</link> <dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">#comment-139</guid> <description>I&#039;m not comfortable with giving that much control to users :) Typography is an integral part of the site&#039;s design, and I often use line-height and spacing to tune it to a place that complements the design of the page. (Trebuchet on my own site is an example) I guess I don&#039;t want to release my design to the point that someone can easily replace all that work with Comic Sans or something else that makes my entire design look laughable. It&#039;s our job as designers to ensure that page text is easy to read and preferably easy to resize; if we do that, I think people couldn&#039;t care less about what the font actually is.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not comfortable with giving that much control to users :) Typography is an integral part of the site&#8217;s design, and I often use line-height and spacing to tune it to a place that complements the design of the page. (Trebuchet on my own site is an example) I guess I don&#8217;t want to release my design to the point that someone can easily replace all that work with Comic Sans or something else that makes my entire design look laughable. It&#8217;s our job as designers to ensure that page text is easy to read and preferably easy to resize; if we do that, I think people couldn&#8217;t care less about what the font actually is.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Mike D.</title><link>http://www.mikeindustries.com/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&#038;feed=Articles+%28RSS2%29&#038;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mikeindustries.com%2Fblog%2Farchive%2F2004%2F06%2Ffont-selector&#038;seed_title=Giving+Full+Typographic+Control+to+the+User/comment-page-1#comment-140</link> <dc:creator>Mike D.</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">#comment-140</guid> <description>Damn you jokers for trying to break stuff! :)That&#039;s a good idea escaping the field before it gets into the cookie.  I think I&#039;ll probably escape the whole thing, just to be safe, and then replace the percent 20&#039;s with spaces.  That should make it pretty tamperproof.As for the names of fonts, I don&#039;t think they are really allowed to have anything but standard letters in them.  I could be wrong... I&#039;ve just never seen one with any special characters in it.As for giving the user too much control, that&#039;s definitely a personal decision. As for me, I&#039;m fine with making my suggestion to them the default (Lucida Grande Mac, Verdana PC) and then letting them switch to whatever they want if need be. After all, if they choose Comic Sans, they are only choosing it for themselves.  Not for other users.  And as Dave S. said, people may have great fonts on their system like Avenir or Myriad, so why not let them use them?</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Damn you jokers for trying to break stuff! :)</p><p>That&#8217;s a good idea escaping the field before it gets into the cookie.  I think I&#8217;ll probably escape the whole thing, just to be safe, and then replace the percent 20&#8242;s with spaces.  That should make it pretty tamperproof.</p><p>As for the names of fonts, I don&#8217;t think they are really allowed to have anything but standard letters in them.  I could be wrong&#8230; I&#8217;ve just never seen one with any special characters in it.</p><p>As for giving the user too much control, that&#8217;s definitely a personal decision. As for me, I&#8217;m fine with making my suggestion to them the default (Lucida Grande Mac, Verdana PC) and then letting them switch to whatever they want if need be. After all, if they choose Comic Sans, they are only choosing it for themselves.  Not for other users.  And as Dave S. said, people may have great fonts on their system like Avenir or Myriad, so why not let them use them?</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Josh Dura</title><link>http://www.mikeindustries.com/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&#038;feed=Articles+%28RSS2%29&#038;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mikeindustries.com%2Fblog%2Farchive%2F2004%2F06%2Ffont-selector&#038;seed_title=Giving+Full+Typographic+Control+to+the+User/comment-page-1#comment-141</link> <dc:creator>Josh Dura</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">#comment-141</guid> <description>Mike,Why not make a Flash form, then use the getFontList() function to get the list of the users installed fonts? Or are you looking to not use Flash here?</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike,</p><p>Why not make a Flash form, then use the getFontList() function to get the list of the users installed fonts? Or are you looking to not use Flash here?</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Mike D.</title><link>http://www.mikeindustries.com/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&#038;feed=Articles+%28RSS2%29&#038;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mikeindustries.com%2Fblog%2Farchive%2F2004%2F06%2Ffont-selector&#038;seed_title=Giving+Full+Typographic+Control+to+the+User/comment-page-1#comment-142</link> <dc:creator>Mike D.</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">#comment-142</guid> <description>Josh,That is a great idea!  I&#039;m on it.  I&#039;ll serve a Flash readability section if you have Flash, and the current HTML one if you don&#039;t.  Perfect.The only thing I&#039;m worried about is Inman getting one out before me.Also, the current textfield is now fully escaped so it &lt;em&gt;should&lt;/em&gt; be unbreakable.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Josh,</p><p>That is a great idea!  I&#8217;m on it.  I&#8217;ll serve a Flash readability section if you have Flash, and the current HTML one if you don&#8217;t.  Perfect.</p><p>The only thing I&#8217;m worried about is Inman getting one out before me.</p><p>Also, the current textfield is now fully escaped so it <em>should</em> be unbreakable.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> </channel> </rss>
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